demoparties prominently featuring genML stuff feels like the antithesis of the point of making demoscene productions. bleh.

@buherator yeah ikr

@gsuberland meh, it’s technology. It happens. People complained about similar things in the demoscene when we got graphics cards, Pentiums, Photoshop etc. Generative AI can be used for interesting stuff, and less interesting stuff.

@Setok technology is inherently political, though, so comparing a system that was built on mass theft of artist labour to regular hardware and software is disingenuous.

@gsuberland I’m not convinced technology is political. What you do with it might be. The theft argument is a bigger one as it’s not directly copying work, but learning patterns form it, like humans do. So I don’t view it as theft. At best, forgery (but that would assume claiming it is something it isn’t). Whether you want to feed that learning machine is another matter.

Then again I remember when sound samples were criticised for being theft. And they arguably are closer.

@Setok yeah no I'm not having this argument. tech being inherently political is unquestionable, and trying to argue the opposite only serves people who need an excuse for unethical behaviour (usually because they're busy making money off it)

I've got no time for grifters or their apologists.

@gsuberland how do you feel about ML stuff that doesn't use training sets?

@SoniEx2 non generative stuff is fine. the generative stuff is super high energy usage and produces shit results so I'm far less enthused about that.

@gsuberland can you be a little more specific than genML? what specifically are you talking about?

@koldinium I can't really be any more specific since genML is what I have a problem with.

@gsuberland do you specifically generative AI or do you mean Machine Learning algos in general, or procederally generated texture or…. i could go on but you see what i mean?

@koldinium the kind of generative ML that hypemongers wish I would call AI, yes.

@koldinium essentially if you built it on top of decades of stolen labour and/or used an unconscionable amount of energy in the process I'm going to be pissed about it. I have no specific beef with the underlying mathematics and structures, that would be weird. it's specifically about harm.