How much of the justification for SaaS really boils down to "We have no idea how to administer Linux systems and we can't/won't hire anyone who does?"

@mttaggart For leadership, It's a CapEx thing. Our previous CIO had a big push to "get out of the datacenter business." That meant Cloud. Then we're still partly in the dc business in cloud, SaaS eliminates that. for us we could hire a linux admin, or we could use that same headcount to hire someone more spcialized at something.

That's just us. Others may be due to kickbacks or lack of underatanding.

@infoseclogger This is confusing, because generally businesses want to capitalize anything they can, but this is a clear reversal of that convention.

@mttaggart I am not an accountant, but I've worked at places trying to shift budget to OpEx. Something about more easily trimmed costs.

@mttaggart For me it always seemed like what you said, but also that they can't figure out a good software distribution and sales model.

I work with a major *AAS platform at my work and I will say that the burden to support customers who run their own instances is significantly higher than the hosted app platform. I'm not even sure we'd sell you a licensed system anymore, if asked.

Another software package we make is about to introduce a hosted version in the next year. It's currently an on-prem, Linux-based app stack where the install is customized to each customer.

@infoseclogger I can see that rationale, although TCO for cloud services, even SaaS rather than IaaS, tends to make that math not math. But that's assuming there is engineering talent in the house. If not, well, it's the same thing as outsourcing any other skill, innit?

@tw000 Ah geez, that makes sense. I was mostly thinking about this from a software consumer perspective, but I can definitely see it from a producer one as well.

@mttaggart More and more we're finding pro support of these platforms isn't robust - we do a better job than they do. I have to think the math has magic tax and accounting wuju steering it.

@infoseclogger As I understand it, the "magic" is in not paying someone a salary and benefits. That outstrips the value of increasing the company's total capital asset value.

@mttaggart @infoseclogger You’re not totally wrong… but with capital expenses, there is depreciation and taxes. Using operational expenses avoids that.

Many orgs now prefer OpEx for IT stuff.

@mttaggart @mos_8502 I wish it was that simple, but some of it is that SaaS can concentrate expertise and develop better software than non-SaaS can, because of scale and focus. I feel this extremely vividly with webmail; there is 0% chance that my (large!) university could develop a webmail environment half as good as the big ones, never mind their spam filtering. We don't have the money to pay the amount and quality of developers that would be needed, if we could even attract their attention.

@cks @mos_8502 That's a really good example of where you'd want a service! I think as you move closer to specific business operations, the value proposition diminishes.

@mttaggart This was literally the argument used for a previous organization I worked at when they moved from fast dedicated onprem gear to slow cloud services. They weren't even hiding it.

The internet being what it is, I see some readings of this as an absolutist stance against SaaS. Nope! There are lots of reasonable uses of services rather than assets. However, an allergy to owned tools, even when the control over the tool would be an object benefit to the org, is a convention that I believe has done more harm than good.

@mttaggart Hiring is hard though, esp for SMBs. And at that level you are proper f'd if the guy says bye after a year for whatever reason. SaaS/cloud is more reliable than that.

@buherator I think that's right and compatible with my point.

@mttaggart I thought the "can't be bothered" needs a bit more nuance, that's all

@buherator Probably too glib, yeah. But as orgs get bigger, the "hiring is hard" argument weakens

@mttaggart

"those unix/linux types are so expensive and they keep telling us things we don't want to hear, like 'that won't actually work'..."

@paul_ipv6 @mttaggart I am seeing a lot of this is "we have no idea how to install and maintain infrastructure anymore, and we cycle through IT/infrastructure people because we consider they are commodity, so we better not put our critical systems on that stuff"

@ai6yr @paul_ipv6 Orgs not investing in IT staff -> constant churn -> increased operational cost and vendor lock-in.

Welp, nothing to be done I guess!

@mttaggart @ai6yr

cabin in the woods off the grid, for the win. :)

@mttaggart @buherator Did someone say glib?

https://infosec.exchange/@cR0w/115702076332668293

@mttaggart 0% in the case of organisations using shared services. It's also not simply a matter of reluctance to hire staff for many.

Time zone coverage, availability, cost and quality of staff as well as replaceability matter. It's a hell of a lot easier to sign a contract with an SLA than to manage all the variables that go far beyond staffing - spare parts, electricity etc are very different propositions in large parts of the world than in the US or Europe.

@samueljohnson Very good points well-taken!

@mttaggart SaaS is fine, if you are, say, a dentist. Of course you don’t know how to administer a server, nor have the budget to pay a full time person to do it for you.

But it’s when you start outsourcing the dentistry that there is a problem.

If you cloudify your core business, you put your core business at the mercy of the XaaS company, whatever level X may be. Which is a fine business model until the XaaS vendor decides they have their hands around enough testicles now that they can start to gently squeeze.

Microsoft kills Windows 10? Annoying, but you can keep using it forever, or at least until it suits you to move off. Your cloud vendor decides to jack prices 200%? Hope you’ve got a bucket handy to puke into.

@mttaggart can I just say how much I'm loving all the very polite disagreements and the adding and appreciating of nuance going on here.

@subtl Turns out it's possible on social media!