It's great to see #EU open tech initiatives popping up, but somehow it feels like we are just **terrible** at making ourselves visible, esp. compared to US.

Like how is anyone supposed find this (otherwise great) project - named "docs" - using a search engine?

https://github.com/suitenumerique/docs/

Even assuming I find this project, how do I search for anything related to it (e.g. install guide)?

Why is the homepage in French by default, without a clearly visible language switcher (also looking at you, @Framasoft )?

Coincidentally, keyboard suddenly stopped working in LibreOffice, so I'm sorry but I'm off to GDocs!

@buherator @bert_hubert many times over the years I asked myself 'why???'

I know nerds don't mind working around any obstacle. It is their work and hobby and if you know all the insides you are 'one of us'.

... And than nerds complain that the general public isn't interested.

(Sorry nerds I have to put it like that. And I know things are changing. So there is hope.)

@buherator because the main target are french government bureaucracy and it is paid by the french government for this specific use case?

@Di4na "Docs is the result of a joint effort led by the French 🇫🇷🥖 (DINUM) and German 🇩🇪🥨 governments (ZenDiS).

We are always looking for new public partners (we are currently onboarding the Netherlands 🇳🇱🧀), feel free to reach out if you are interested in using or contributing to Docs."

@buherator @Framasoft because software projects led by the french are usually exclusionary, arrogant, and don't think about anyone else?

The one case where I found reality is worse than the stereotype.

@Di4na @buherator Do you know what's holding Belgium back from joining the effort?

@Di4na Even if what you said was true, doing open-source implies that you are willing to collaborate with people all over the world, not to mention that afaik French users also use search engines. Hell, even our asshole far-right government makes almost all .gov.hu websites available in English.

@vosje62 @buherator Here is a compendium of pain points. Additions welcome: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/what-the-open-world-must-do-better/

@bert_hubert @vosje62 @buherator

In re-reading it (thank you again for posting it, and bring it to the attention of a fresh set of readers)... I'm saddened somewhat by the realization that you're right, that for the vast majority of organizations, one does have to cater to the "...as a service" because they've already laid off everyone who could actually maintain self-hosted code. And that means the next generation of people who could do those jobs will consequently be in shorter supply, and we edge ever closer to a final dystopia.

As an organization, we try to lead by example, not using external services, but even organizations which seem to express a really heartfelt (or, perhaps more importantly, financially-driven) desire to clean up their act seem unable to counter the momentum Microsoft and Amazon's salespeople have built up.

Anyway, the grass really is much greener over here, and all are welcome.

@buherator I think that placing that particular projection of objectives and goals toward a project is a bit uncharitable

@buherator @bert_hubert

Yes, naming things is hard and a there has been quite a bit of discussions internally about this (ping @virdev @sampaccoud ) The original name was "Impress" which conflicted a bit with LibreOffice impress...

You fill find the docs for Docs in https://github.com/suitenumerique/docs/tree/main/docs

Regarding the usage of French language on https://docs.numerique.gouv.fr/ it's because it's intended for French public servants (so maybe it shouldn't be set as the homepage in the Github repo, but there is no other "official" homepage).

@buherator I agree with the idea of good naming and organising docs. But, as an American, I don’t think it is fair to for me to give anyone shit over not making their web site easy to use in my language. It’s not like Americans do anything for anybody else’s language.

@Framasoft

@Di4na These cute little guys from the README disagree with you (image file name: europe_opensource.png):

@camillem

Thanks for the explanation, truly appreciated!

I guess you can't do much about it now, but IMO French could've been excellent for finding a unique name (not necessarily with your weirdest spelling, but people learned to spell "kubernetes" too).

We agree that the homepage link is actively misleading, but it should be easy to remove (not a mandatory field) or replace e.g. with the link to the documentation.

@bert_hubert @virdev @sampaccoud

@paco For random websites, sure, not my business.

But this is software clearly meant for an international audience.

(in the other thread I learned that the linked web page is not even the web page of the software, so linking it as the homepage was probably not a good idea)

@Framasoft

@Framasoft @buherator The other question is why on github?

@buherator @Framasoft try searching for /e/ operating system, same problem, I guess it would have been more successfull otherwise